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无聊随便谈谈舟子引发的问题,打发一下周末。

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发表于 2010-10-4 07:00 AM | 显示全部楼层


回复  lilianc


    呵呵,读过你的帖子。
关于我亲身经历的故事,谁也不会比我了解更多。其实给我儿 ...
Paul 发表于 2010-10-4 00:51



    看你前一个贴,“我拿了方子赶紧去一家知名药店抓了三付药,回家煎药。晚上儿子喝了一大碗药汤倒头就睡。第二天一大早,儿子活蹦乱跳背书包上学去了!”
是不是喝了一次病就好了?如何体现加减呢?
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发表于 2010-10-4 07:10 AM | 显示全部楼层
回复 41# slowstep


    那是指在银翘解毒散原方基础上加减而成的方子,确实是一剂而愈,后两剂没再用。
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发表于 2010-10-4 07:13 AM | 显示全部楼层
回复 42# Paul


    明白了,谢谢
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发表于 2010-10-4 08:28 AM | 显示全部楼层
老连,你这贴子长篇大论的,看的我头晕,

我觉得科学=/=真理,而是探索真理,并不断纠偏,逐渐接近真 ...
lilianc 发表于 2010-10-3 23:25



"  过去在笛卡儿时代把人的主体性强调到一个过分的地步,以为人可以超越自然之外,这是有问题的,所以我们今天讲科学试图提出一个问题,现代科学进一步的发展,有没有可能吸取东方的智慧,我认为是有可能的,首先在端正人与自己的关系上面,东方的智慧值得重视,具体来讲就是我们的博物学知识,中国古代也有自然学知识,就是博物学知识,它只是没有被专题化,中国的学问是通才之学,中国的自然知识也没有单独设一个理科来教,蕴含在诗经里面、论语里面,在老庄的道德经或者《庄子》里面,所以关于自然的看法、自然的知识是渗透在中国的古典之中的,这些知识首先不是一个征服和控制的知识,而是一种人和自然相协调的知识。这个协调性,因为中国属于天人合一,这个命题里面得到集中体现,通过天人合一,揭示了人和自然的内在联系,这样一种体悟跟传统的西方科学是很不一样的,所以今天讲科学,我们的狭义的科学就是西方的科学,再狭义的科学就是西方的近代科学,广义的科学应该包括中国古代的自然知识,我称为博物科学,所以什么是科学今天我并没有给出一个定义,尼采说,历史性的东西是给不出定义的,因为定义一给就死了。历史是在演变,科学是在演变的,因此我们只能采用历史分析的方法指出几种类型。

  今天花了很多精力讲科学的本源,自由的科学,近代的求利科学,最后讲了讲中国传统的博物科学,三种科学在人类历史上各显风采,各自维护和辉煌而持久的文明,今天我们的求利科学出了问题,怎么办,有很多办法,我的粗略想法就是引进东方的博物智慧,回溯到希腊自由科学的理念,来共同改变、修整我们的现代科学,使之朝着健康的道路发展。
"
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发表于 2010-10-4 08:41 AM | 显示全部楼层
“治未病词语见于《内经》多篇论文,是指采取预防或治疗手段,防止疾病发生、发展的方法,是中医治则学说的基本法则,是中医药学的核心理念之一”

预防疾病,当然是在没病的时候预防, GNC的善纯,CoQ10,再加上Fintness24的Treadmill 比凉茶要有用的多。

老毛,老邓够传统的吧?他们的医疗小组里那个是中医?  那个中医被他们请到家里去了?
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发表于 2010-10-4 08:58 AM | 显示全部楼层
转基因农田超级野草崛起,美国农民焦头烂额 (转载)

【 以下文字转载自 Vegetarianism 俱乐部 】
发信人: purity (purity), 信区: Vegetarianism
标  题: 转基因农田超级野草崛起,美国农民焦头烂额
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct  4 10:07:30 2010, 美东)

转基因农田超级野草崛起,美国农民焦头烂额

森·哈姆林是一名拥有相关证书的作物顾问和农学家,他正在田纳西的戴尔斯堡寻找对
草甘膦产生抗性的杂草。艾迪·安德森正往他的地里追加喷洒灭草剂,以对抗那些对草
甘膦产生抗性的杂草。安德森先生有着大约3,000公顷大豆田,他正在对付那些有害的
长芒苋。

在至少22个州立十种产生抗性的杂草感染了上百万公顷的土地。艾迪·安德森是田纳西
州戴尔斯堡的一名农民。15年来他一直是免耕农业坚定的拥护者。免耕农业是一种环境
友好技术,几乎排除了耕作导致的水土流失以及肥料和杀虫剂造成的有害残留。

但今年情况不一样了。“农达”(Roundup)是孟山都公司原创的拳头产品,但现在也
有其他公司用它的属名“草甘膦”来进行销售,这东西对于农民来说,曾一度几乎算得
上是种奇迹化学品。它有着广谱的除草功能,使用起来简单安全,降解迅速,减轻了对
环境的影响。

然而,美国农民们对却没想到,那种产生奇迹的化学品除草剂“农达”的广泛使用,却
导致了抗农达杂草在美国各地的传播。从2000年开始至少十种抗农达杂草已经在22个州
里感染里上百万公顷的耕地。最近一个下午,安德森先生看着拖拉机们在绵延起伏的田
野中纵横驰骋,它们正在把他的农田翻开,把除草剂掺进土里以杀灭杂草,好让地里等
下能种上大豆。

如同频繁使用抗生素会有引发抗药的超级细菌出现的风险一样,美国农民几乎人手一瓶
地使用杂草杀手“农达”已经导致了顽强的新型超级杂草迅速滋长。为了对抗这些新兴
杂草,安德森先生和遍及东部,中西部和南部的农民们正被迫向田里喷洒更大剂量的有
毒除草剂。他们用手去拔草并且用回了传统翻耕这类劳动密集度更高的法子。安德森先
生有3,000公顷大豆田,今春他将要翻耕其中的三分之一,这比他过去几年来的总量还
要多。他说:“我们又回到20年前的老路上去了,我们正在尝试看有什么办法。”

农业专家说这样的劳作会导致食品价格变高,农作物产量变低,农业成本上升,土地污
染和水污染更严重。“它是我所见到的对农业生产最大的一个威胁。”说这话的人是安
德鲁·沃戈三世,他是堪萨斯保护区协会的主席。这些对农业表现出严重威胁的物种最
早是在2000年于特拉华的大豆田里被人辨识出来的。从那之后问题蔓延了开来,至少22
个州里有10种抗性杂草感染了上百万公顷的田地,其中主要种的都是大豆,棉花和玉米
。这些杂草恐怕将要考验美国农业对于某些转基因作物的热情。通过基因工程所研发的
那些能够在喷洒“农达”后活下来的大豆,玉米和棉花已经成了美国农田里的标准作物
。然而,一旦“农达”无法杀灭杂草,农夫们便不再情愿把剩下的钱花在对付那些特殊
的杂草上。

中国的农民是否也要步美国农民的后尘呢?  
本文引用地址: http://www.sciencenet.cn/m/user_content.aspx?id=369446

**********************************************

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/0 ... html?pagewanted=all

Farmers Cope With Roundup-Resistant Weeds

Just as the heavy use of antibiotics contributed to the rise of drug-
resistant supergerms, American farmers’ near-ubiquitous use of the
weedkiller Roundup has led to the rapid growth of tenacious new superweeds.

To fight them, Mr. Anderson and farmers throughout the East, Midwest and
South are being forced to spray fields with more toxic herbicides, pull
weeds by hand and return to more labor-intensive methods like regular
plowing.

“We’re back to where we were 20 years ago,” said Mr. Anderson, who will
plow about one-third of his 3,000 acres of soybean fields this spring, more
than he has in years. “We’re trying to find out what works.”

Farm experts say that such efforts could lead to higher food prices, lower
crop yields, rising farm costs and more pollution of land and water.

“It is the single largest threat to production agriculture that we have
ever seen,” said Andrew Wargo III, the president of the Arkansas
Association of Conservation Districts.

The first resistant species to pose a serious threat to agriculture was
spotted in a Delaware soybean field in 2000. Since then, the problem has
spread, with 10 resistant species in at least 22 states infesting millions
of acres, predominantly soybeans, cotton and corn.

The superweeds could temper American agriculture’s enthusiasm for some
genetically modified crops. Soybeans, corn and cotton that are engineered to
survive spraying with Roundup have become standard in American fields.
However, if Roundup doesn’t kill the weeds, farmers have little incentive
to spend the extra money for the special seeds.

Roundup — originally made by Monsanto but now also sold by others under the
generic name glyphosate — has been little short of a miracle chemical for
farmers. It kills a broad spectrum of weeds, is easy and safe to work with,
and breaks down quickly, reducing its environmental impact.

Sales took off in the late 1990s, after Monsanto created its brand of
Roundup Ready crops that were genetically modified to tolerate the chemical,
allowing farmers to spray their fields to kill the weeds while leaving the
crop unharmed. Today, Roundup Ready crops account for about 90 percent of
the soybeans and 70 percent of the corn and cotton grown in the United
States.

But farmers sprayed so much Roundup that weeds quickly evolved to survive it
. “What we’re talking about here is Darwinian evolution in fast-forward,”
Mike Owen, a weed scientist at Iowa State University, said.

Now, Roundup-resistant weeds like horseweed and giant ragweed are forcing
farmers to go back to more expensive techniques that they had long ago
abandoned.

Mr. Anderson, the farmer, is wrestling with a particularly tenacious species
of glyphosate-resistant pest called Palmer amaranth, or pigweed, whose
resistant form began seriously infesting farms in western Tennessee only
last year.

Pigweed can grow three inches a day and reach seven feet or more, choking
out crops; it is so sturdy that it can damage harvesting equipment. In an
attempt to kill the pest before it becomes that big, Mr. Anderson and his
neighbors are plowing their fields and mixing herbicides into the soil.

That threatens to reverse one of the agricultural advances bolstered by the
Roundup revolution: minimum-till farming. By combining Roundup and Roundup
Ready crops, farmers did not have to plow under the weeds to control them.
That reduced erosion, the runoff of chemicals into waterways and the use of
fuel for tractors.

If frequent plowing becomes necessary again, “that is certainly a major
concern for our environment,” Ken Smith, a weed scientist at the University
of Arkansas, said. In addition, some critics of genetically engineered
crops say that the use of extra herbicides, including some old ones that are
less environmentally tolerable than Roundup, belies the claims made by the
biotechnology industry that its crops would be better for the environment.

“The biotech industry is taking us into a more pesticide-dependent
agriculture when they’ve always promised, and we need to be going in, the
opposite direction,” said Bill Freese, a science policy analyst for the
Center for Food Safety in Washington.

So far, weed scientists estimate that the total amount of United States
farmland afflicted by Roundup-resistant weeds is relatively small — seven
million to 10 million acres, according to Ian Heap, director of the
International Survey of Herbicide Resistant Weeds, which is financed by the
agricultural chemical industry. There are roughly 170 million acres planted
with corn, soybeans and cotton, the crops most affected.

Roundup-resistant weeds are also found in several other countries, including
Australia, China and Brazil, according to the survey.

Monsanto, which once argued that resistance would not become a major problem
, now cautions against exaggerating its impact. “It’s a serious issue, but
it’s manageable,” said Rick Cole, who manages weed resistance issues in
the United States for the company.

Of course, Monsanto stands to lose a lot of business if farmers use less
Roundup and Roundup Ready seeds.

“You’re having to add another product with the Roundup to kill your weeds,
” said Steve Doster, a corn and soybean farmer in Barnum, Iowa. “So then
why are we buying the Roundup Ready product?”

Monsanto argues that Roundup still controls hundreds of weeds. But the
company is concerned enough about the problem that it is taking the
extraordinary step of subsidizing cotton farmers’ purchases of competing
herbicides to supplement Roundup.

Monsanto and other agricultural biotech companies are also developing
genetically engineered crops resistant to other herbicides.

Bayer is already selling cotton and soybeans resistant to glufosinate,
another weedkiller. Monsanto’s newest corn is tolerant of both glyphosate
and glufosinate, and the company is developing crops resistant to dicamba,
an older pesticide. Syngenta is developing soybeans tolerant of its Callisto
product. And Dow Chemical is developing corn and soybeans resistant to 2,4-
D, a component of Agent Orange, the defoliant used in the Vietnam War.

Still, scientists and farmers say that glyphosate is a once-in-a-century
discovery, and steps need to be taken to preserve its effectiveness.

Glyphosate “is as important for reliable global food production as
penicillin is for battling disease,” Stephen B. Powles, an Australian weed
expert, wrote in a commentary in January in The Proceedings of the National
Academy of Sciences.

The National Research Council, which advises the federal government on
scientific matters, sounded its own warning last month, saying that the
emergence of resistant weeds jeopardized the substantial benefits that
genetically engineered crops were providing to farmers and the environment.

Weed scientists are urging farmers to alternate glyphosate with other
herbicides. But the price of glyphosate has been falling as competition
increases from generic versions, encouraging farmers to keep relying on it.

Something needs to be done, said Louie Perry Jr., a cotton grower whose
great-great-grandfather started his farm in Moultrie, Ga., in 1830.

Georgia has been one of the states hit hardest by Roundup-resistant pigweed,
and Mr. Perry said the pest could pose as big a threat to cotton farming in
the South as the beetle that devastated the industry in the early 20th
century.

“If we don’t whip this thing, it’s going to be like the boll weevil did
to cotton,” said Mr. Perry, who is also chairman of the Georgia Cotton
Commission. “It will take it away.”

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回复 鲜花 鸡蛋

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发表于 2010-10-4 10:04 AM | 显示全部楼层
回复 45# loudway


    未病在这里指“将病未病”的状态,而不是没病,说防止疾病的发生发展没错,说未病等于没病就错了。比如癌症,有癌前期等等,癌前期并不是癌,但也不是没病,而是癌症有较大概率发生。如果说上医治没病,那还是上医吗?
关于老毛,李鼎铭先生在延安曾经让毛泽东领略中医的奇效,毛从此对中医刮目相看。如果没有这个段子,中医在建国后的命运也许会悲惨得多,因为那时一边倒地学俄老毛子。如果你身在海外,建议你到文学城读一下润涛阎的日志,他对那个时代有很深的体验。
老邓和中医的关系我不太清楚。不过我非常确切地知道老邓的家人(具体谁不便说)请过贺普仁去家里针灸。
中医的历史地位其实很低,三教九流,不知道是不是属于下九流。华佗这样的名医,还不是死在曹操手中?所以光看大人物对中医的态度,并以此为据贬斥中医,本人以为不妥。
近代史上贬中医最厉害的名人莫过于 鲁迅,把他老家的那几位中医(不知哪个路子的,好象既非张仲景派也非叶天士派,更不是孙思邈的传承)拿出来作为中医的代表大贬一通,老先生骨头硬,看病只看西医,而且只认日本的西医,病入膏肓也绝不沾中医中药,我很佩服。可惜的是他才活多少岁?在当时的作家群体里他也是早夭的一位吧。
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发表于 2010-10-4 11:20 AM | 显示全部楼层
回复  loudway


    未病在这里指“将病未病”的状态,而不是没病,说防止疾病的发生发展没错,说未病 ...
Paul 发表于 2010-10-4 12:04

前不久,我看了中医。
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发表于 2010-10-4 03:34 PM | 显示全部楼层
希望你能展开说说中医是如何治癌前期的 :), 我想你说的癌前期是指在西医还未诊断出癌的时候?

所谓李为毛治病,现在更多的说法是为了照顾统一战线,因为他是民主人士. 当了主席之后,老毛基本上没再碰过中医。历年的毛的长期保健医生和晚年医疗组的成员有:
王鹤滨 西医 苏联医学副博士 心脑血管  
王新德 西医 苏联医学副博士 神经病学  
徐德隆 西医 神经病学  
陶桓乐 西医 老年病  
陶寿淇 西医 心脏内科  
姜泗长 西医 耳鼻咽喉科  
胡旭东 西医 心脏科  
吴洁 西医 心脏科  
方圻 西医 心脏内科  
李志绥 西医 外科" 

没有一个西医, 毛对中医的真正态度是什么, 一目了然。

还有,如果鲁迅死的早是因为不信中医, 那么台湾地区最近的调查发现中医的平均寿命比西医低6到7年,又能说明什么呢? 非典时期非著名"国医大师"邓铁涛,在把自己老婆给误诊去世后,又把自己的儿子活活治死,又能说明什么呢?  (ZT 邓铁涛的儿子经常便血,他辨证为肠胃湿热,吃他开的中药半年。未愈,后行肠镜检查,结肠癌伴转移,错过最佳手术时机而亡。其妻素有高血压/高血脂,一日突诉剑突下疼痛。他诊断为胃脘痛,吃中药,直到第二天查心电图。下壁心梗扩散,心衰而亡。)
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发表于 2010-10-4 03:35 PM | 显示全部楼层
回复 30# 连山


    好文
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发表于 2010-10-4 04:13 PM | 显示全部楼层
希望你能展开说说中医是如何治癌前期的 :), 我想你说的癌前期是指在西医还未诊断出癌的时候?

所谓李为毛 ...
loudway 发表于 2010-10-4 17:34


西医有没有吧家人治死的?
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发表于 2010-10-4 04:20 PM | 显示全部楼层
西医有没有吧家人治死的?
连山 发表于 2010-10-4 18:13



    肯定没有,就是有也不算。算了就不科学了
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发表于 2010-10-4 05:45 PM | 显示全部楼层
Support xiaoxiaozhang!
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发表于 2010-10-4 06:06 PM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2010-10-4 06:22 PM | 显示全部楼层
治得这么牛头不对马嘴的,还一炮双响的,国医大师级别,我没见过。也许你知道,不烦说来听听。

中医爱好者常说的一句话就是:你不喜欢中医,是因为你没碰上好的中医。如果连国医大师(全国只封了8个)邓铁涛都这档次,你说中医还有救么?


西医有没有吧家人治死的?
连山 发表于 2010-10-4 15:13
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发表于 2010-10-4 07:51 PM | 显示全部楼层
这么热闹,我也说两句。中医是不是科学?我认为当然是。千金方,本草纲目难道不是科学吗?至于中医在中国式微的原因其实并不在于是否科学的问题,而是人品的问题。这要说起来就是长篇大论了,大家自己思考吧。
转基因食品我是不会吃的。作者把转基因食品和杂交稻混为一谈我是不认同的。杂交稻是同一物种的“杂种优势”,当然是好的,转基因食品就象驴和马所生的杂种骡一样,骡有什么问题,大家都知道的。
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发表于 2010-10-4 09:19 PM | 显示全部楼层
回复 49# loudway

帮你总结:
上医治未病,未病就是没病,那才是正解;
说未病是“将病未病”,那是曲解,有病就是有病,没病就是没病,哪有“将病未病”?
华佗能治病,那是野史;华佗治不好曹操的病,被曹操杀了,那才是正史;
鲁迅早死,不是西医无能,治不好鲁迅的病,而是鲁迅让中医气死的,怒其不争嘛,这才是正史;
吕正操活了106岁是因为他打网球,这是正史;他身边有位中医按摩高手葛长海经常为他调理,那是野史;要没有葛氏家族按摩,就靠西医,没准吕老能活到126岁;
1967年,一张令人振奋的大字报贴遍祖国大江南北:经医生体检鉴定,毛主席他老人家身体非常健康,能活到140岁!之所以没活到这个岁数是因为在延安时条件太差,不得已请中医看病,从此落下病根;如果当时就有如此庞大的西医团队为他护驾,活到160岁也是可能的,这才是正史!
笑一笑,十年少,呵呵!
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发表于 2010-10-4 09:30 PM | 显示全部楼层
Very good, I like it :)

All in all, no need to argue any more as we both are already having our mind set.  I will count my healthcare insurance which only covers western medine, you can go ahead enjoy the chinese herb you bought from china town. As long as we both are happy with our own choices, we 各得其所 :)

Happy Trading!

回复  loudway

帮你总结:
上医治未病,未病就是没病,那才是正解;
说未病是“将病未病”,那是曲解 ...
Paul 发表于 2010-10-4 20:19
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发表于 2010-10-4 09:39 PM | 显示全部楼层
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发表于 2010-10-4 10:16 PM | 显示全部楼层
老实讲西医理论本身也挺落后的,比中医理论先进不了多少。

西医的所谓先进诊断技术,都是其他学科进步带来的。X光,麻醉,超声诊断,验血,这些都和西医无关。没了这些,西医什么都不是了。

西医理论,对人体的认识,比古代也没有先进多少。大部分病还是靠人体自身免疫系统治愈的,免疫系统出问题,西医也束手无策,只会切除器官了。

西医把人体当成零件,不按照整体治病,一百年后看,可能根不是正确的思路。中医把人当整体,也许才是正确的思路。

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