Anti-Trader Tax Petitions

CoolMax

应该不会通过的，国会的无厘头提案，又不是今天才有。
如果一定要加个评语，那就是：『吃饱了撑的』。

jpm

Judging from some of the Congressmans' reply, this bill seemed gaining a lot of ground, far away from being just a nonsense, espeically with the misleading title "Let Wall Street Pay for Wall Street's Bailout ...".

If enacted, a lot of traders will be put out of business, while big firms like GS will find ways to get away from it.

Long term investors may not be benefiting from it though.  As liquidity dries up, they may not be able to get the desirable stock price and/or shares.

Just curious about how they would tax option trading, 2.5% of the stock price or the option price.

Diffusion

6# ppteam


Of course we are not on the same page.

This law will take away your dough, but would affect me very little.
dividend_growth 发表于 2009-12-9 23:37

这个想法值得商榷。

在美国波士顿犹太人屠杀纪念碑上，铭刻著一位叫马丁.尼莫拉(Martin Niemoller)的德国新教牧师留下的发人深省的短诗。尼莫拉曾是纳粹的受害者：

　　　　“在德国，起初他们追杀共产主义者，我没有说话──因为我不是共产主义者；
　　接著他们追杀犹太人，我没有说话──因为我不是犹太人； 后来他们追杀工会成员
　　，我没有说话──因为我不是工会成员； 此后他们追杀天主教徒，我没有说话──
　　因为我是新教教徒；最后他们奔我而来，却再也没有人站起来为我说话了。”

Timber

是不是就是印花税?  输赢都要交, 不合理. 要么就不要收资产增值税.

tianlong

if democratic congress dominate long enough, this bill can pass.
in histroy, democrate always want to raise tax.
Peter DeFazio is a libera democrate .

bobcat

Who win, who lose?

The winners for transaction tax are

1. MMs, because they will be exempt and they gain more on ASK-BID SPREADS;
2. Big money, because they can manipulate the market more easily;
3. Unions, because many non-union workers adopt 401K retirement plan
typically in mutual funds, while union members have the traditional
pension plan. Thus non-union workers suffer a lot more than union workers
and they will be forced to join the union.
4. Democratic party in long run, because money will leave US regardless whether
all the nations will have transaction taxes all together or not.
Thus people must rely more on democratic party.

The losers are

1. Traders especially retail traders, because most of them lose money
and they will also have to pay this tax.
2. Workers with 401K.
3. IRS, because traders stop trading and IRS will lose most of its revenue.
Buy and hold investors pay very little taxes. The way IRS makes money
from traders is
to tax winners at high rate and gives only a little bit back to losers.
Especially, in the next few years, since most investors have lost money,
they will not pay any taxes at all. Once traders leave, IRS will not
get this revenue any more. For the time being,
many traders pay many times more taxes than middle class families.
Since the trading volume will be much lower, such a legislation is never
meant to generate any real revenue.

4. Obama administration, because hurting the economy is always bad
for the administration.

Finally, since most of us here have a choice to go back to China
to trade (although there is a small stamp tax there, there is not capital
gain tax),our situation is a little bit better than most native US traders.

happylux

Support!

ppteam

26# bobcat

good points.

I wonder how about those trading desks in wall street firms? They are big money day traders.

bobcat

26# bobcat

good points.

I wonder how about those trading desks in wall street firms? They are big money day traders.
ppteam 发表于 2009-12-10 15:38

They may either become market makers or do some sort off-exchange trading as in England.
They don't have as much power as people like Buffett, who once said traders should be taxed 100%.

ByStander

One interesting detail in the latest proposed tax on trading bill is that the tax on stock transactions would be 0.25 percent while the tax on futures, swaps and CDOs would be 0.02 percent.

That's right. These noble politicans, who want to help the average guy so much, will tax the trading in stocks at a far higher rate than the trading in other instruments favored by large institutions. And they call this " Let Wall Street Pay for the Restoration of Main Street"

ppteam

30# ByStander

so, for one roundtrip of one ES , how much tax do I have to pay, according to this 0.02%?

ByStander

30# ByStander

so, for one roundtrip of one ES , how much tax do I have to pay, according to this 0.02%?
ppteam 发表于 2009-12-10 16:34

No idea, I haven't read bill. I was told by a friend of the above info.

bobcat

Warren Buffett Backs a Transaction Tax

bobcat

In Canada, retail traders have lower tax rates for both long term and short term gains.
In US, the law clearly favors the richest, who in general have long term investment.

ppteam

People like WB shouldn't care about tax anymore. so just die.

bobcat

30# ByStander

so, for one roundtrip of one ES , how much tax do I have to pay, according to this 0.02%?
ppteam 发表于 2009-12-10 16:34

For a round trip, you pay 0.04%, on the notional value of one ES. It is about $22.

CoolMax

For a round trip, you pay 0.04%, on the notional value of one ES. It is about $22.
bobcat 发表于 2009-12-10 05:07 PM

That's too much.

ByStander

For a round trip, you pay 0.04%, on the notional value of one ES. It is about $22.
bobcat 发表于 2009-12-10 17:07

How about the options?

bobcat

How about the options?
ByStander 发表于 2009-12-10 17:36

Option case is much worse because it is based on the notional value.

dara

is this real? pay 0.25% of Tax no matter what you win or lose?

This would cause huge problem, think about it, basically you need the base 股票up 0.5% to break even.

That would decrease the daily vol by at least 90%+.

Think about it, if a 股票 trade at the same price for 200 times,  government will all the money!!!!

Let me give a more specific example:

CREE has 100M share outstanding, and market cap is $5B.
CREE current daily vol is about 2M

With this rate, in 100 days, government would get $5B tax???????

What is that? how could that be???

The only outcome is that the daily vol would at least drop 90% to 200K.

Even at 200K share daily traded, in 1000 rading days(about 4 years), government would still get $5B.

That is still impossible.